Why Kamala Harris joined “Call Her Daddy.”

Very few podcasters would apologize to their fans for clogging their feeds with interviews with a presidential candidate. But Alex Cooper — the host of a podcast variously described as “raunchy, “sex-positive,” “very popular,” and “the most listened-to podcast by women” — is an exception. “Daddy Gang,” she began her final episode, “as you know, I don’t normally discuss politics and I don’t have politicians on this show because I want to.” Call her dad to be a place where everyone feels comfortable tuning in.”

Her guest was Kamala Harris, and Cooper had decided to speak with the Democratic candidate because “my overall focus is on women and the everyday issues we face.” Their 40-minute conversation covered Harris’ upbringing, the abolition of abortion rights, high housing costs and Republican attacks on “childless cat ladies.” This wasn’t a hard-hitting accountability interview, but it did contain some substantive political discussion – not that you’d guess from some of the more overheated attacks from the right, who seemed to think the two were braiding each other’s hair. After largely avoiding interviews with mainstream news outlets for a summer, the Harris campaign, like Donald Trump’s, is looking for friendly podcasters who are popular with regular audiences. As a journalist, I wish both campaigns would do tougher interviews. But as a pragmatist, I realize that hard news programs no longer reach the audience they once did. Plus, most Americans who consume a lot of news already know how they will vote. Locking down undecided voters — even those who don’t currently plan to cast their ballot — is critical. And if that means listening to podcasts hosted by YouTube pranksters-turned-wrestlers (like Trump did), or podcasts with previous episodes like “Threesomes, Toxic Men and OnlyFans” (like Harris), then be it it like that.

If you haven’t heard about it Call her dadplease accept my condolences for being old, male, or otherwise uncool. (I was in the first group until I binge-listened in preparation for the Harris interview.) The show had the second-largest audience among podcasts on Spotify last year in a row The Joe Rogan Experience. Recent guests include Miley Cyrus, Avril Lavigne, Katy Perry and Simone Biles. Young women Love “Father Cooper” and listen to what she says.

Read: Kamala Harris’ biggest advantage

That Cooper chose to start with an apology is interesting – not least because it suggests that Team Harris was courting herand not the other way around. In February, Cooper said The New York Times that she had resisted White House overtures to have Joe Biden as a guest. “Go to CNN, go to Fox,” she said. “Do you want to talk about your sex life, Joe?”

Although Harris didn’t talk about hers, she did Talk about tampons and agree with Cooper that many of the male politicians who pass abortion laws seem to have a very poor understanding of female biology. In fact, this campaign featured 100 percent more tampons than I expected because the online right-wingers tried to nickname Harris’ Vice President Tim Walz “Tampon Tim.” (As governor of Minnesota, he signed a law that provided free menstrual products in school bathrooms for boys and girls.)

Harris also spoke about being the first vice president to visit a reproductive health clinic, arguing that Republican abortion restrictions, by forcing those clinics to close, are also limiting women’s access to Pap smears, contraception and breast cancer restrict showings. She spoke about the death of Amber Thurman, who developed blood poisoning after having to leave Georgia to have an abortion shortly after a state law went into effect that severely restricted the procedure. Republican supporters of the law had claimed that abortion could be allowed to save the life of the mother, Harris said, anger creeping into her voice: “Do you know what that means in practice? She’s almost dead before you decide to nurse her.” Whoever got Harris to be the word salad maker in the 2019 Democratic primary or the snarky person in her disastrous interview with Lester Holt in 2021, deserves a raise.

The people who criticize Harris’s Call her dad The bill claimed it was demeaning and frivolous – or, at best, pointless. Young women are already considered candidates for Democrats – the gender gap in this election is real. But Cooper reaches an audience that doesn’t follow politics as closely, and her own background is smaller.C more conservative than one might expect from the podcast’s powerful raunch atmosphere. She was raised Catholic in Pennsylvania, and her story follows a pattern familiar to Generation Z and Millennials: After spending her 20s going on “tail dates,” as she put it, she met a film producer who later suggested transforming their house into a scavenger hunt full of moments from their relationship, and the couple celebrated a big white wedding in Mexico.

Call her dadwhich began as part of the notoriously dour Barstool Sports network, has mellowed along with Cooper. His listeners are neither anarchist feminists nor aspiring tradwives, but rather the mainstream of Generation Z American heterosexual women who think sex before marriage is fun but also dream of settling down with Mr. Right. This group definitely leans Democratic, but Cooper’s Barstool connection means conservatives will also be listening, as well as many women who may not vote at all. Republicans have struggled with this group of voters because they see them as more radical than they actually are, while some evangelical leaders even hope that the abortion ban will incentivize premarital sex. But most young women intuitively understand that their sexual and economic freedom are linked: They make their own money so they can date whoever they want.

Cooper’s apology also intrigued me because she followed it up with a self-deprecating rant about her inability to ask questions about fracking and border controls. Trump just completed his own podcast tour, speaking to influencers like Logan Paul, Lex Fridman and Theo Von who are popular among young men. Let me shock you: These people didn’t seem concerned about their knowledge of the Middle East or the intricacies of drug policy. But women are not allowed to get ahead of themselves, even if the entire interview podcast scene is based on fake expertise and overly confident opinions. Cooper’s self-deprecation is a reminder of why Harris has sought to downplay the historic possibility of becoming the first female president — because she knows that female ambition still worries many voters.

Read: What Kamala Harris’ doubters don’t understand

Still, this interview is the most caustic I’ve ever seen as Harris allowed herself to broach the subject of her own ambitions. Cooper asked her about Arkansas Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders’ comments that “Kamala Harris has nothing to keep her humble” because she has no biological children. How did the vice president feel about that? “I don’t think (Sanders) understands that there are a lot of women out here who don’t strive to be modest,” Harris responded. She also continued, “A whole lot of women out here… have a lot of love in their lives, family in their lives, and kids in their lives, and I think it’s really important for women to encourage each other.” Harris responded to the JD Vance claimed that the Democrats were dominated by “childless cat ladies,” saying, “I just think that’s mean.”

Trump’s continued electoral success has inspired many pundits to argue that standards of decency no longer exist in American public life – and that politicians can therefore say whatever they want. In fact, parts of Harris’ story may resonate with voters. Harris’ stepchildren came up in the interview Harris did last week All that smokea sports podcast hosted by two former NBA players. “I love these kids — they’re my kids,” Harris said of her husband’s children, adding that she worked hard not to undermine her mother. One of the hosts, Matt Barnes, sympathetically noted that he is a stepfather to three children. At a time when the GOP really wants to talk about the economy and the border, the attack line about Harris’ family life can be heard on podcasts aimed at Gen Z women and (overwhelmingly male) sports fans.

My guess is that many parents secretly think it’s weird not to want kids, but they also know people who have been devastated by infertility, and so find it rude to insinuate that non-parents are hollow droids . And in any case, Harris has an answer to the implicit accusation of being a heartless jerk Call her dadshe talked again about how her stepchildren call her “Momala.”

As the campaign enters its final month, Harris is taking on more interviews and public appearances. She’s having a Univision town hall this week and will be there The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, The viewHoward Stern’s radio program and 60 minutes. In other words, after targeting Gen Z women, she is now turning to the other key parts of the Democratic base: Hispanic voters, coastal liberals, suburban women, sexually liberated baby boomers and people who care about foreign policy. It’s a smart tactic – and a reflection of the campaign decisions Trump made months ago.